The tragedy has generated profound sorrow and outrage regarding safety protocols, particularly targeting the management of Vishal Mega Mart. Many commenters have personal connections to the victims, echoing urgent calls for accountability and enhancements to safety regulations amidst concerns over inadequate emergency responses.

Vishal Mega Mart

Local Authorities

Emergency Services

Sadly, one 25 year old passed away in the elevator, he was stuck at the elevator

santrupt1994

A massive fire broke out in the Vishal Mega Mart of Delhi's Karol Bagh. A 25-year-old died after being trapped in the lift. His final message to his brother sparked outrage. To know more details about this, here's the link: https://www.bollywoodshaadis.com/articles/vishal-mega-mart-fire-karol-bagh-65522

itsmenandini

Unbelievably, 28 passengers survived the crash, most of them from the tail section.

VinZ_Bro

[deleted]

I've never seen such a clear plane crash, shocking

StarLink97

profkimchi

So sad to see this happening. I'm sure pilots did everything in their power to bring the plane and passengers back to the ground safely.

I'm not an accident expert but I do fly 737s. It looks like a pitch control problem and the aircraft went up and down in a motion pattern called phugoid where when it pitches down it accelerates which increases the lift force over the wings causing the aircraft to pitch up and climb which in turn causes it to slow down, reducing the lift and forcing the plane to pitch down again.

This seems to be suggesting the jammed or restricted elevator movements (no hydraulics?) stripping the pilots from possibility of normal pitch control and leaving them with secondary pitch control only through the combination of
- stabiliser trim (which produces pitch changes with considerable delay, posing the risk of overtrimming)
- power changes (decreasing the power causes the aircraft to pitch down due to placement of the engines below and forward of the Centre of Gravity which then must be counteracted by elevator movement to keep the plane level)
- flaps extension/retraction (variable pitch change, depending on the type)
- gear extension/retraction might change the pitch (depending on the type)
- speedbrakes (some pitch change, but mainly extending the speedbrakes will increase the vertical speed)

As you can imagine all of the above is NOT normally used in order to control the pitch. In case of jammed elevator it has to be used in conjunction, in moderation, constantly readjusting based on the behaviour of the aircraft, remembering there is a considerable delay between the inputs and the result. All of it under acute stress.
Even tho jammed elevator is practiced on the sim sessions, this type of malfunction is quite difficult to manage just to maintain the aircraft in the air but landing is even more challenging as at the last moment aircraft needs to be pitched up whilst reducing the thrust... that causes the pitch to go down.

As stated above, I am certain Colleagues did everything they possibly could in face of this adversity to bring the passengers, the aircraft and themselves back to safety.

Edit: typo

Edit2: it has been confirmed that russian air defense system was the main reason for the crash [source](https://www.tagde24.com/world/kazakhstan-plane-crash-russian-pantsir-s-system-involvement-confirmed/)

RetaRedded

Looks like they have loss of hydraulics and potentially inoperative control surfaces. They are porpoising.  Absolutely horrifying and tragic. Seeing it happen is gut wrenching.

interstellar-dust

GanacheScary6520

Looks like they lost flight control and were merely controlling the plane with engine power alone. I believe something like this happened before and they managed to land safely.

ImmediateAd9145

The knot I had in my stomach watching this. I cannot even imagine.

Flight control issues seem like the most obvious reason, but it's such a strange flight path.

DadCelo

Looks like there might have been at least a pitch control issue, possibly other issues. Looks like a textbook phugoid near the start of the video.

Edit: wording

Charlie3PO

Such a safe and well-built aircraft and it's proximity to Russia..... My mind can't help wonder if there's "something else" going on here.   Very sad.

ExplorerAA

ReagenLamborghini

The going up and down has a Hallmark of loss of elevator control, or no one at the controls. It's porpoising.

styckx

Appears to show some similarities with this case:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Astana_Flight_1388

RIP to everyone who lost their lives on this sad event.

LaCost23

I thought 2024 would be clean but turns out I was very wrong

Stypic1

According to [Flightradar](https://x.com/flightradar24/status/1871824789519692132)

&gt;Flight #J28243 that crashed near Aktau Airport in Kazakhstan is an Azerbaijan Airlines Embraer ERJ-190 with registration 4K-AZ65. 

&gt;'#J28243 took off from Baku at 03:55 UTC time and was flying to Grozny. The aircraft was exposed to strong GPS jamming which made the aircraft transmit bad ADS-B data. At 04:40 UTC we lost the ADS-B signal. At 06:07 UTC we picked up the ADS-B signal again before it crashed at 06:28 UTC.

gear-heads

volatile_flange

Yeah, that is horrifying to watch. Those poor people 😢

fullthrottle13

Fucking hell, this is extremely terrifying. Hydraulics failure? Must be? They seems to have zero pitch control.

dis340

Based on everything that I’m seeing, the fact that the crew managed to make it to an airport, make two attempts at landing there, and make the crash shallow and slow enough to be survivable is absolutely incredible.

These magnificent bastards fought their crippled bird to the very end.

KHWD_av8r

obefiend

The initial reports say it disappeared from the radar near Makhachkala, Russia at 04:25UTC. and reappeared above the Caspian at 06:07UTC with significant changes to its altitude and speed. 

Strange thing to me is how did they make almost 170 nm away from Makhachkala, reaching Aktau overseas ? 

I am not an expert at any extent but first thing popped up in my head was hydraulics issue. Though it does not explains disappearance from the radars, how did they managed fly overseas and two unsuccessful approach attempts. 

I am not familiar with E190 system but in case of hydraulic failure, isn’t there any backup system independently available for control? 

People have been mentioning similarities with DC-10 crash but the hydraulic system of that aircraft was designed differently and it’s been out of use since then ( as I know ) 

Also, from the area of Makhachkala, Baku and Gabala airports are both relatively closer with longer runways than that of Aktau, interesting to know why they made such a decision. 

Anyways whatever happened they still managed to heroically save 27 people from the horrible crash. 
Hopefully they can recover from this.

__theskywalker

The the flight track and altitude profile is on Flightradar, it is just crazy. Up, down, right, left, no portion was straight and level.

okletsgooonow

Footage from the wreck show rear fuselage fully of shrapnel holes.

Russians at it again attacking civilians flights.

Financial_Love_2543

Preliminary reports suggest bird strike. This certainly doesn’t look like bird strike though.

Psychic-Gorilla

Anyone from the UK here. Just had bbc1 on and currently it's the news the footage showed the wreckage and a charred body how do they make that much of a mistake I couldn't rewind it

HybridAlien

Of course Russia is calling it a "bird strike" despite clear images of shrapnel. Putin thinks he's a master of covering killings up. RIP all victims.

BattleClean1630

My conclusion

Missile hit the tail section completely cutting of hydraulics, plane had no steering at all, pilots tried operate elevation by adjusting throttle input hence swinging in the video, right before the crash aircraft banked to the right which pilots couldn't save even if god helped them. Repsect to the pilots for this fight

Pan_Pilot

Pilot here.
It seems like some sort of elevator control issue like a pitch trim runaway motor. The pilots definitely fought the pitch up tendency . 
Also, if the TOGA ( Take off and GoAround mode ) is inadvertently engaged during approach, the massive thrust input will make the nose  go up. The best way to counteract this is to disconnect the automation and handfly the aircraft but some low time pilot may not recognize this situation and fight with the controls.( seen this in real life with my copilot at the controls during a KSFO SOIA approach - luckily, I did react quicky ).
Next thing that comes  to mind is an unauthorized flight control input ( hijack ? suicide attempt ? ).
All the above are just possible scenarios but it could be far from the truth.

star744jets

Some photos online show damage consistent with AA weapon damage.  

If legit, it’s possible that the aircraft indeed diverted from Grozny, and got accidentally shot at by Russian AA defenses. There has been Ukrainian drone action near Grozny, so the AA operators may have been trigger happy.

Legal-Comment5183

Bit like that Air Astana flight a few years ago.

Inevitable_Owl4338

Literally nothing about this makes sense to me. Look at that flight. Nose down, gain airspeed, nose up, lose airspeed, fly level, bleed airspeed, roll right, nose down, then level wings, level flight, lose airspeed, then nose down, roll right, and literally zero inputs until contact with the ground. 

Like what was going on? If this were an engine out scenario, you’d trim for best glide and live with it, not porpoise all over the place. So if it’s an issue with the flight surfaces, how were they able to maintain to much control? Hydraulic leak? Like what happened here.

This one is truly confusing to me. Need to hear the flight voice recording on this.

Wheream_I

For the others wondering like I was, [phugoid](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phugoid).

LetMePushTheButton

**More details:**

* The plane circled Aktau Airport, requested emergency landing, but crashed \~3 km from the airport, bursting into flames
* Early reports suggest technical issue, fuel concerns, and GPS jamming affecting data transmission. Investigations underway
* Also reports of 15+ people surviving the crash.
* Passengers &amp; Crew: 67 passengers, 5 crew members.
* Passengers seated in the tail section managed to exit the cabin on their own and began helping one another.
* 27+ survivors were taken to a hospital of which 14+ are stable. (Fig might change with time)

Few in the tail section not only got themselves out but also started rescue of other passengers

credit-u/ironsteel9011

Thunder-Cloud-987

Seen the other pics showing what sure looks like shrapnel peppering, and comments from pilots that these type of oscillations can be from issues in the tail where the peppering was. 

That’s as far as my speculation will go today…..but clearly this was a hell of a fight from the crew to save this bird. And they saved over two dozen. 

Bless them as heros 🫡

Beahner

Whatever happened here,  thank you to those pilots who did all they could to try to save their lives.  Some walked away, which is incredible.  RIP to those who perished.

BambooPanda26

More and more reports that it was Russian air defence which damaged the plane.

ParaMike46

JUST SPECULATION, but few years ago was a incident in Portugal with a Embraer after some maintenance work. They messed up with control surface cable systems, and the pilots lost the control of the plane, but they were able to land safely with the help of 2 F16 from air force. You can find the comunication audio on YT, and there are some YT videos about the incident..

Metalcerb

This screams hydraulic failure. 

God rest those who've perished.

madding247

A *lot* of armchair experts in these comments…

pattern_altitude

The accident took place on March 27, 1977, when two Boeing 747 passenger jets collided on the runway of Tenerife North Airport on the island of Tenerife. 


KLM flight 4805 started its takeoff run during in dense fog, unaware that Pan Am Flight 1736 was still on the runway. 


The impact and resulting fire killed all 248 people onboard the KM plane and 335 of 396 people onbaord the Pan Am plane. 


To this day, it is the deadliest disaster in aviation history.

Weather had a lot of planes stuck at Tenerife.  

The PanAm plane was slated to leave first since their passengers were still on board, but KLM flight which had debarked passengers was blocking the PanAm plane from getting to the runway until everyone was back on board..  The KLM pilot delayed things further by choosing to fully refuel at Tenerife instead of the recommended Las Palmas since he thought it would be faster.   The KLM pilot was very worried about new company flight time policies.

Once the planes were eventually rolling the PanAm flight was given instructions to taxi and take the third exit (which made no sense and would have required two very tight turns) but they either ignored those instructions or missed an exit in the fog and proceeded to the fourth exit (one which would be much easier for a 747 to turn on).  Tower communication was shoddy.

The KLM was given departure instructions but not takeoff clearance but the impatient pilot took it upon himself to take off.  The tower told him to hold at the same time PanAm radioed that they were still taxiing...the two messages squashed each other and KLM heard neither.

The tower radioed for PanAm to declare when it was clear.  The KLM engineer pointed this out twice to the KLM pilot but was ignored.

The PanAm saw the KLM bearing down on them through the fog and went full throttle and tried to turn into the grass off the runway.

The KLM saw the PanAm a few seconds later and tried to take off early as they were too fast to stop.  They were also near max weight since they had decided to top off their tanks, and didn't have enough power to get clear.

The collision killed 583 people, including everyone aboard the KLM flight.  61 people from the PanAm survived.

SlothOfDoom

This accident is why flight crews are now trained to speak up when they see a pilot in command making a mistake.

realparkingbrake

We studied this incident when I was in training for the Air Force to be part of an air crew. My main takeaway was that the pilot who was taking off was very experienced and skilled but also arrogant about it. He got impatient and jumped the gun. The rest of the crew knew he was screwing up but were too intimidated by his stature to speak up and challenge him.

StoneBailiff

A__Friendly__Rock

It was the KLM pilot's fault from what I remember. He ignored things that were said over the radio and decided unilaterally to start his takeoff.

ClearlyNoSTDs

There is an excellent NOVA PBS documentary about this. The captain was impatient and took off without proper clearance. After the disaster changes were made including captains no longer had absolute command in the cockpit. [https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/planecrash/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/planecrash/)

skinnergy

The KLM pilot was impatient and arrogant and mistook ATC saying OK to something else as being given take-off clearance. One of the consequences of Los Rodeos is that since then ATC has to say your callsign, give you wind direcction and speed and your runway, and use the exact phrase "cleared for takeoff", you're not allowed to start rolling otherwise.

The whole thing was a clusterfuck. The Pan Am got confused by the taxiways (some had turns too narrow for such a huge plane), ATC was overwhelmed by the amount of traffic suddenly diverted to their airport because of a bomb threat in La Palma, and of course there's the low clouds/fog Tenerife Airport gets from the geography of the island and the altitude.

Nothing would have happened if the KLM pilot hadn't been an impatient asshole, though, which is why he gets the blame for the accident.

MinervaJB

My dad was high up in the industry at the time and I'll never forget his quote. "If that KLM pilot wasn't already dead, I'd kill him myself."

Shoegazer75

Having flown out of Tenerife Norte and not having known this until today, the slow as fuck experience on the tarmac makes more sense

intelligentx5

The father of an acquaintance of mine is Canarian and has not eaten meat since that accident. The barbecue smell apparently lingered over the island for over a week.

karnstan

You know, the common statistic that Aviation accidents are really uncommon, 1 in 10 million or something and that cars are more dangerous in terms of probability of having fatalities. There is something about plane accidents that are so scary because you literally have no control over it. Whereas at least in a car you have some ability to swerve and prevent accident in certain cases.

kirsion

This terrible story (of that KLM captain Van Zanten) is the classic example that any leaders, even they are very experienced and qualified, should never rely only on themselves, they should hear/listen and consider the opinions of their colleagues, because everyone can make mistakes, and they should be timely corrected.

But it should be noted that the cause of the accident was complex, and there were many contributing factors (starting from terrorist attack attempt at the main airport, heavy fog, and so on).

sealightflower

Can you imagine being passenger in back of Pan Am plane looking out of window? All you could do is say "oh fuck" and you are gone.

dervu

To anyone who will try and say “oh but 9/11 was worse”, 9/11 was not an accident

TawnyBobcat5036

None of those aircraft even planned to be there that day. So many things added up to that disaster

Senior_Pension3112

Horrific in the loss of life, but the plan crash accounts that haunt me the most are Japan Air 123 and United Air flight 232. 

The passengers and crew in those crashes had a tremendously long time to contemplate what was going to happen. 

In both cases, it’s amazingly the crews were able to keep the planes in the air as long as they did with no hydraulics.

forprojectsetc

If anyone is interested in more details about this accident and how it even came to this situation, there is a really good aviation youtube channel who also covers tons of disasters and explains them on a very detailed level. 

https://youtu.be/2d9B9RN5quA?si=XRJ2S46UOjW0zZlL

Invictu520

There were so many factors that caused this it’s mind boggling. First, terrorist blew up the airport terminal they (las palmas) were supposed to go to. 

They diverted to Tenerife which was tiny at the time. Due to the islands terrain it had winds that would blow in, go over mountains and condense. These new clouds then rolled into the airport which is at 2,000 feet altitude causing clouds to be at ground level. 

One major problem was the air traffic control. It was bad to say the least. 

The airport is so full that the 747s have to taxi all the way down the runway, 180, and take off. Now the klm is in front of the pan am so it goes down the runway but is having trouble understanding instructions from ATC about should they turn off to the apron and enter the runway or do the 180 which they do. 

Now to the klm pilot. The guy was the head of simulation training for the 747s and which meant he was a little rusty being in a real plane. Secondly, klm had a policy called the one duty limit about hours worker over X amount of time. If you go over you can lose your license. Thanks to the terrorist and the hectic situation they caused he was cutting it close on going to las palmas and back to the Netherlands making him rush things. 

So the pan am flight enters the runway and also has trouble with ATC not communicating well and the thick clouds aren’t helping. Both planes are on the same line to ATC so if they speak at the same time you can’t hear. While the pan am flight is taxing they talk to ATC while ATC is talking so all klm hears is “okay” then static. They aren’t sure if they’re cleared but the captain basically says fuck it, full throttle, doesn’t see pan am until it’s too late. 

There’s a lot more stuff to read about but basically not one individual person is liable in my eyes. Dumb policy, terrorists, a rusty pilot, poor weather, bad atc, tiny airport.

l3onkerz

I swear Reddit knows I have a flight scheduled and then proceeds to showcase the worst flight accidents possible.

AlibiYouAMockingbird

The only good thing to come from this terrible aviation disaster is an overhaul of safety regulations that have prevented a similar tragedy from occuring again.

lexluthor_i_am

I watched an episode detailing this on Air Disasters. From what I remember, they said this accident was due to the heavy fog, and language barriers from the 3 parties (Spanish controllers, KLM pilots and Pan Am pilots). The low visibility made the instructions very confusing.

kraftables

The location if the old airport was the worst possible, the one foggy spot because of the vulcano. The new airport never has fog.

senapnisse

My father had a friend who worked here for the fire fighters at the time, and I remember him always telling me the story of his friend, who ended up traumatized after having to clean a lot of human remainings from the accident. It truly was a horrific day here.

Eydrien

One time I flew into Tenerife, the plane suddenly tilted to the side just when we were coming in low and the tip of the wing missed the top of a building by just a few feet and I remember thinking ohshitthisisit and even though the plane immediately corrected itself and landed safely, the damage was done and I didn't feel right for the rest of the day.

GarysCrispLettuce

mouthful_quest

I have a friend who is a pilot at Delta airlines and he told me he was more concerned while the plane was on the ground that in the air by far

Latkavicferrari

For a good computer re-creations with good graphics and text check out X-Pilot, Flight Channel or Alec Joshua Ibay. They all do great re-creations of all types of Airplane accidents. You will definitely see this accident in its entirety. Also check out the 1960 mid-air collision over New York City, Air France flight 447 from Rio to Paris, TWA flight 800 and New Zealand flight 901 to sightsee Antarctica which flew into Mt Erebus. But Beware these channels are addictive.

Artislife61

I was stationed at Dover AFB in 1977 and was put on a police detail that was part of the processing of the bodies at the base mortuary. My first glimpse of mass casualties.

theycallmenaptime

I’m guessing the reason the KLM flight (blue) plane had its rear hit the ground prior to take off was because the pilot saw the other plane and tried to pull up with maximum force.

scottyTOOmuch

Pretty much always..... the case is that plane crashes start to take place long before a plane leaves the ground! Good pilots are keen to pickup/be on guard for this.... Take a close look at the John F Kennedy crash to send this point home... Good pilots have a gut sense that can help prevent such..

northgacpl

gimme_toys

At least some died without knowing much what was coming

I'm from Tenerife (La Laguna), and my mother in that time was working relatively close to the airport. She always says that when the accident happened it was heard from her office, and that the smell of both planes burning was the worst smell she had ever felt, she wasn't sure if it was because there were corpses or because the gasoline, but even today when she talks about this incident I can see how she get chicken skin....

AngeliMortem

Both flights were full of boeing whistle blowers

John-Snow-247

Is it just me or is this animation really bad at showing how the accident happend? Like ist shows zero of the logisitics on the runway &amp; the fog. The infographic on the wikipedia article is way better.

unfaithfull_tomato

[mandatory Admiral Cloudberg write up](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdmiralCloudberg/s/TAmWIhbn8e)

smoking_greens

Don't know where I hear it, don't know also if I'm mixing things. But, I think that Tenerife had a huge amount of flights to which they were not used to because a Canarian terrorist group made a bomb threat on the main Airport.

Someone knows anything about that?

2overkill2

The captain of the KLM 747 appeared in KLM advertising saying how safe they were because of professionals like him. The KLM captains attitude pretty much caused the whole accident. 

Manmillionbong

The KLM pilot skipped basically every important pre-flight check and ignored the rest of the flight staff trying to coerce him into doing his job.

fiddynet

What makes this accident more tragic is that the fire department did not reach the Pan Am wreckage until about 20 minutes after the collision, as they were initially unaware that the Pan Am plane had also been involved in the accident and dense  fog added more confusion. This delay drastically reduced the chances of survival for many passengers who might have otherwise been rescued from the burning wreckage.

brother_of_thor

The spooky part for me was the Panam crew reached up to shit off the engines to prevent further fires and the cockpit roof was all missing. They lived by a matter of inches !

scootermcgee109

Capt van Zanten…a name that will live in infamy.

Aviator739

"Fun" fact: during the stopover, one of the KLM stewardesses (Robina van Lanschot) decided to stay in Tenerife, I think because her boyfriend lived there or something. She wasn't technically a survivor, but all 250 or so people she just spent hours on a plane with (including her coworkers) died and she lived.

Aromatic_Fail_1722

Happened in 1977 since I don't see it mentioned anywhere but I'm not looking at every comment

CharlesChristopher01

How were there 2 747s at such a small, insignificant airport?

ThrowinNightshade

Damn I remember seeing this it’s pretty sad

iiTactical

En__Fuego_

Holy shit I just watched this documentary. This was a series of unfortunate events if there were any. And one ass hole of a pilot.

https://youtu.be/_RBLM6qO0g0?si=ecAGWeqAsZvdQbzH

Slugbit

It’s like KLM tried to ollie Pan Am but failed

Pandiosity_24601

TIL about this terrible tragedy that happened the year I was born. I feel bad for all those victims. My dad flew airplanes for 60 years.

DisastrousBeautyyy

I learned about that in Breaking Bad🥹🥹🥹

Mysterious_Dance5461

I stumbled on the video in my feed and started reading comments with the sad music playing in the background going into the rabbit hole. Then I close this post and say damn, that was interesting. I looked at the sub name and it’s damnthatsinteresting. Ha. Got me.

xTechnologic

Tinkertoylady22

This animation was taken from an awesome video on the disaster posted on Nebula - here's the link: https://nebula.tv/videos/neo-the-tenerife-disaster/

Neo is also on YouTube - he has many very informative short documentaries with these awesome 3D models/animations. Worth a watch!

queerjoyiseverything

When they reached the Pam AM plane, didn't even realise that the other plane was on the ground, couldn't see because of the thick fog.

Important_Ruin

A fire at a mall in Delhi resulted in fatalities and raised questions about safety protocols during emergencies.

Karol Bagh Mall Fire Tragedy

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